RFP Design: What Government Consultants Wish You Knew

Join Megan Seaton and Lexi Webster from Avèro Advisors in a candid discussion that sheds light on vendors' complexities and frustrations when responding to Requests for Proposals (RFPs). In this enlightening podcast, our Business Development Manager and Proposal Coordinator unveil their top five pet peeves, ranging from vague project scopes to the hurdles of physical submission requirements. Delving into the critical need for clear communication and realistic timelines, they advocate for a more transparent and vendor-friendly RFP process. With a focus on the importance of well-defined objectives and the value of feedback for unsuccessful submissions, Megan and Lexi offer invaluable advice on navigating the RFP landscape. Tune in to understand how better practices can lead to more effective proposals and, ultimately, stronger vendor-client relationships in the government technology sector.

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Transcript

Megan (00:00):

Everyone and welcome to the Avero Advisors live stream where business development is taking over this week. So with me, I do have Lexi Webster. She is our proposal coordinator working on our team, and she's going to bring a wealth of knowledge as it relates to responding and reading through RFP. So good morning, Lexi, how are you?Lexi (00:27):

I'm good. How are you today, Megan?
Megan (00:29):

Good. Doing well. Excited to have you on and introduce you to our audience today. So in just a second, I'll let Lexi tell you a little bit about herself and her background and how she arrived at Avero because I do think it's a unique story. But if you are joining us today, please let us know where you're joining from. We love to hear from you all in the comments. It makes our life a lot easier when these things are interactive. So we love to hear your questions and thoughts that you may have on the topic at hand. And for those of you who are joining and who don't know anything about what Avero does or who we are, we were established in 2016 with the sole purpose to revolutionize government operations. We understand the unique challenges that governments face and some of the inefficiencies, excuse me, that are brought upon by the use of outdated tools. So such as sticky notes, spreadsheets, homegrown systems. So what we do is very niche, but we offer tailored solutions in it, strategic planning, ERP, planning through selection, through implementation, and then also business process. So I wanted to give you a brief overview of who a Avero is, and now I will turn it over to Ms. Lexi and let her introduce herself. So Lexi, you have the floor.

Lexi (02:02):

Like Megan said, I'm Lexi Webster, I'm the Proposal Coordinator to Avero. So I'm in the business development department with Megan. An interesting background of how I guess came back to Avero. I was in grad school at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville and worked there part-time, got my grad degree in May, 2022, and then got a job in the public sector working for a development district in Chattanooga. And I probably didn't realize how important Avero was until I worked in the public sector myself. So very outdated processes and she's not joking about things, being on sticky notes. That's very true. And just super behind the private sector in terms of keeping up with processes, new technology and things like that. So I worked there for about a little over a year and then I actually came back to Avera as a proposal coordinator this past August. So I'm happy to be back and it's something new every day chasing new RFPs. And I like the variety of work and I like always feeling like I'm chasing a goal.

Megan (03:16):

Yes, yes. RFPs can be fun, they can be very interesting and we're going to dive into that in just a second. But we're happy to have you on and thank you for joining me today. Thank you. I do want to take a moment and remind everyone that we are live on all platforms. We also have a newsletter and we have a very fun YouTube channel. We are very passionate about these thought leadership sort of things. So please make sure that you're following us on all platforms. And I will have Mackensie actually share how you guys can sign up for our newsletter and the links to our YouTube channel and podcast. So just a little commercial there. But let me preface this conversation. This conversation or topic was sparked because here at Avero in the past three years in the business development world, we have responded to over 500 RFPs.
(04:16)
And so we are going to provide you guys with a unique vendor perspective of sort of the nuances that we see when we respond and when we read through RFPs. So I'm going to refer to them as pet peeves and we have five of them that we are going to discuss today. I also want to say that if you are a procurement specialist and you are watching today, I want you guys to know that we have the most respect for what you guys do in local government and how hard you work. You guys are more than just paper pushers. You guys have to make sure that you keep your organizations out of jail and you have to manage contract negotiations and all the laws that go into that. And also managing vendor relationships can be extremely, extremely difficult. So please know that we do respect your work and that we are thankful for the work that you do.
(05:18)
So with all of that being said, let's just dive into it. So for those of you who are watching who don't know what an RFP is, it is a request for proposal. So anytime a local agency, government agency goes out, forbid they issue an RFP, we select which RFPs we go after on a weekly basis. And at any given moment we could be responding to anywhere from six to seven RFPs, right, Lexi? So that's part of Lexi's job. And with that being said, our first pet peeve when we are reading RFPs, the first thing that we look at when we are deciding, hey, do we want to respond or do we not want to respond? Is the scope of work, we pull up the RFP and immediately search scope of work. What is it that this RFP is asking for? If you have a vague scope of work, it's truly navigating without a map. If you're very vague in what you want, we don't know what to propose and you're not going to get good responses if you don't have a clear vision of what you want to happen. So Lexi, dive into that a little bit more. Why is it important to have a clear and defined scope of work in your opinion?

Lexi (06:45):

So when I'm looking at RFPs and like you said, the first thing we do is search scope of work that will let entities know is this something Avero does? Is what they're asking for something we would propose on when there are very vague scopes of work, I have a really hard time going, what are they asking? We have multiple methodologies for multiple types of projects. You're kind of shooting in the dark and throwing one out there and hoping it may or may not be what they're asking for. You don't really know. And a lot of times I have saw multiple instances where maybe RFPs should have perhaps been an RFQ like qualifications because they're wanting you to give methodology and pricing and a timeline on something. They don't even have a set project on, how can I give pricing and a methodology. When you do not have one specific vision or project in mind, that's nearly impossible.
(07:48)
And if you define your scope of work, you're going to get better responses, you will get responses you are looking for with a vague scope of work. The responses are going to be inconsistent and they're going to be seemingly random and all across the board. And you may be getting some that you're like, why did we get some responses from a firm that does this? Well, you didn't define your scope of work, so they just threw it out there hoping it would work. That's extremely important. I would say that is pet peeve number one because if you do not have have a set scope of work, that's extremely frustrating and your responses will reflect that.

Megan (08:30):

Yes, for us, and as I mentioned too, and I'll probably mention this several times throughout our conversation, but we and other vendors are like this too. We are responding to multiple RFPs at one time. So having that really defined objective of what you guys are looking for, it helps us create a better response in a timely manner. But one of the points I notated here, Lexi, is that unclear scopes can oftentimes lead to inaccurate cost estimations. So when a vendor is responding and we don't know what we're responding to or what you guys want, a lot of times we can overestimate or underestimate that cost and that's bad for both of us, right? Because if we win the bid and we finally understand after chatting with you all what you are looking for, we may have to do a change order and increase the price, right? Also, when you're talking about resource allocation, unclear scopes make it difficult for vendors to allocate the right amount of time and materials to your project, right? We are involved in many, many projects and when we propose a team that is going to help you with this project, we have to look at what their current workload is. So if you're unclear about what that scope looks like, we may not know who to propose on the project. Do you have any thoughts on those two? Lex?

Lexi (10:07):

I see someone in the chat. I'm trying to bring a comment, ask for an example of a vague scope of work.

Megan (10:15):

Yes, that--

Lexi (10:17):

Is very good. Very good question.

Megan (10:20):

Thank you. Thank you. We have plenty. Yes, we have plenty.

Lexi (10:24):

I saw scopes that literally are like technology modernization. Okay, what do you mean by that? Are you wanting 30 computers? Are you wanting tech supplies? Are you wanting a new ERP system in place? Are you wanting an IT strategic plan to define your goals? I have literally saw scopes of work that are three to four sentences long and that's it. And that's very little to work with. Whereas on a tip for improvement on the opposite side of that would be I have soft scopes of work where they break it up into phase one, phase two, phase three, and they put the tasks they want. And that's not saying
Megan (11:04):

The outcomes.

Lexi (11:05):

Yes, and that's not saying that us as a respondent has to cut our normal methodology and what we would do, they want you to be creative and bring your knowledge to the table, but it is telling you, here's the outcomes we want to achieve, how do we get there? And that helps a ton when they have literally broken it down, at least in the phases, if not task by task to know, okay, this is what they're really looking for in this project.

Megan (11:30):

Yes, yes, absolutely. And I can give an example of one that we recently responded to that was actually a reissue. So they reissued it several times. And so it was super frustrating, but the scope of work literally went to, Hey, we want you to help us define our goals in the IT department, look at our hardware, look at our software, let's see where we're at today and where we can be in the future. And then we want your help on selecting hardware software. But then it skipped down to we also need cyber cybersecurity, we also need you to help us with implementation. And it's like, okay, we went from one extreme to the other.

Lexi (12:20):

We went from the goals to literally implement something,

Megan (12:24):

Right? And all of those can be all encompass. But I think too, a good point to notate here is give us a little bit of background either in the introduction or a paragraph or two before you list what your objectives are with the RFP, with the solicitation. Give us some background knowledge of, hey, this is where my organization is, this is what we're envisioning, this is what we want to do. We just don't know how to do it. So I think background is super important. And the last thing I want to mention as far as a pet peeve can go with a vague scope of work. And we kind of touched on this, but it's what I like to call increased risk of scope creep, right? So when the project isn't well-defined, there's a higher risk of gradual changes that can be added to the project that's not good for either one, the vendor or the government entity that we're dealing with.
(13:32)
And then we've talked about the reduced quality of deliverables, tips for improvement. What tips do you have? I know Lexi, you said be specific and detailed. Yes. Define your objectives. Our boss constantly preaches this. If you're going to build a house, you do not go to the contractor or go to the builder and say, Hey, build me a house. You tell them how many windows you want, how many bedrooms you want, bathrooms, et cetera. What do you want the walls to look like? Same thing with any project anywhere, but we're talking about local government today. Before you craft that RFP, think about what you want that house to look like and define those goals and objectives. If you don't know where to start, there are a ton of resources out there. Call us. We give out free advice all the time to help you, but make sure you have those key deliverables. I'm sorry I can't talk today. Well-defined outline your milestones and your timelines, and then I've already said provide background with your organization because we don't know what we're going into a lot of the time. And then review and revise. Yeah, I'm sorry, Lexi, did you have...?

Lexi (14:49):

No. You're good. Going off of the background information point, I think that's just really important to know why are you taking up this project now? What has spurned this is this, for example, a countywide initiative where you're trying to get technology modernized. It's just nice to know that background and know why now. Why is this project happening now? And if you've had some sort of technology failure, if your stuff isn't working anymore, it's just nice to know that background.

Megan (15:21):

What are you using? Why do you not like it? What is the issue? What is the underlying issue for this RFP? Yes. Oh man. We could go on a rant. I think just on, we could probably just stay on pet peeve number one for hours. I did want to recognize Mr. Terry McKee. Thank you for joining us, Terry. And I'm going to post his comment here. It says, our National trade group, NIGP, has global best practice statements for solicitations that members can download and use to guide in their writing. NIGP also maintains a library of sample solicitations that members can access as a resource. And then I can't see the rest of his comment, but thank you, Terry, for providing those resources. Those are super, super important and thank you for your support as well. Do we have any more comments, Lexi, that you can see? I can't see them all. I think our fearless leader has joined.

Lexi (16:20):

Yes. We have a comment.

Megan (16:23):

Vague scopes accompanied by vague pricing structures also lead to confusion. Lump sum pricing is not easy to provide when the scope is vaguely defined. Yes, that's so true. Lexi, you're laughing. Do you have a comment on that comment?

Lexi (16:40):

So similar to what you were saying, we recently just submitted an RFP that had lump sum pricing in it, and they also didn't have a set scope. So how do you want us to provide lump sum yearly pricing on something when we don't even really know what your project is? So that puts us in a really hard position because we don't really even understand what you're asking for. So why would we provide pricing on that? So it's interesting that people want all these specifics, like budgets, timeline, pricing, when they don't really have specifics about their vision or where they want to go with the project.

Megan (17:21):

Exactly, exactly. Okay, moving on to pet peeve number two, inflexible or unrealistic timelines. Oh man. Lexi, what you got?

Lexi (17:33):

Yeah, so I mean, I do RFP selection weekly, and I know you help look for RFPs too, Megan, and it is not uncommon for me to look on Friday when I look at RFPs to select and something is due in less than a week from when they posted it. I mean, I saw a shortage four to five days before. That is crazy. And it's kind of an indication that maybe they don't want lots of responses. Maybe they know who they want and have known about it beforehand. But that's really, really stressful and unfortunate on the part of vendors who do want to participate in the process. It would be really hard to get a proposal together in that amount of time, especially going through our quality assurance processes and ensuring it is really what you're looking for in that amount of time in less than a week. A week is really a minimum I need to have it perfected. In less than a week you probably are not going to receive great responses if you do a short timeline.Megan (18:44):

And so lower quality submissions. And then there's also this thing of missed opportunities for clarification between the vendor and the organization that is soliciting the RFP. And I have in my notes proposal meeting, and I don't know if this is the right section to talk about this or not, but I love proposal meetings, pre-proposal meetings, excuse me. They oftentimes allow us to understand the background because it's explained better or talking in person or over a zoom. They allow us as the vendor to ask more specific questions, things that we're hung up on, right? So make sure you, at least in your timeline, put either a week or two for a q and a or offer up a Pre-bid meeting. I really enjoy those and I think that they can help provide that sort of background and provide clarification for what you guys are asking for. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So tips. What tips do you have for setting better timelines? Anything else? Other than I had pre-bid meeting in there.Lexi (20:03):

Yeah, I would also say that an industry norm, I feel like in our arena for RFPs, I would say at least two weeks from the time you publish it to the deadline, people will have time to see it. Most people aren't searching for RFPs every single day. I mean, we do it weekly. People will have time to see it, get a good response together. I feel like two weeks is a good minimum and I compared it to when I was in college. If I was told to write a 20 to 30 page paper, they're not going to say, have this back to me in two days. They're going to give you a couple weeks to do that. So why would you not want people to take their time and get a good proposal to you and not be rushed just throwing something together?
Megan (20:49):

No, I completely agree with that. Adequate time for internal review and turnaround, right? Yes. So that we make sure we truly understand. I think transparent communication is key here. And I could go on a rant about this for days. We know that there are sometimes laws around why you can or can't communicate with the vendor when the RFP is on the streets. But if we have a burning question, and Lexi can give you several examples. Maybe about DBE requirements or minority owned business requirements, or, you know, it's not clear whether you want us to submit this physically or if you want us to submit it electronically. Those types of questions sometimes are not addressed in the RFP. And so then we're like, okay, who is the RFP contact? Let's call 'em real quick and just get some notification. And we can't ever get any feedback just on those simple questions. That's why I say pre-bid meetings and Q and A are so key in that. To just provide that feedback loop, right?
Lexi (22:03):

Yes, I completely agree. Many times I have sent emails to the RFP contacts and that's literally the person they're giving you to contact and weeks go by and do not get a response. And you call them and sometimes you still can't contact them. So it puts you on an even tighter timeline having questions and those are not getting addressed.

Megan (22:24):

Addressed, yes. So Terry asks, do most governments allow enough time for you to prepare a good response to their RFPs?

Lexi (22:36):

I would say... For the most part.

Megan (22:37):

For the most part.

Lexi (22:38):

But there are some that definitely, I mean, I find two days out and the processes I have to go through, I may find it on a Friday and it's due on Sunday or Monday. So it's just not even possible at that point. And we look weekly, we look a lot. So for the most part, I would say they do allow enough time, but there are definitely instances where it is they posted it to check the box and then it is due in two or three days.

Megan (23:08):

Yeah, and I mean, we find some really good ones that we feel like Avero would be a great fit for, right? And like Lexi said, the turnaround time is like five days. So sometimes we will say, Hey, let's move some things around and go after this one because we have a better chance of winning this business other than this one over here. So think about that too. From a agency perspective, you know, vendors may pick and choose which RFP to respond to in regards to timelines, right, that we're talking about. Sometimes we do move things around. So I think that's a really great point. Thank you for your question, Terry. We appreciate that. All right, let's move on to pet peeve number three. And this one is one that I get really frustrated about, and I have a great example of this. So I mentioned it earlier, physical submission versus electronic submission.
(24:13)
I have so many problems with this. I think when you ask us to mail in, and again, I'm not throwing shade or anything like that, but when you ask us to physically print off, you know, 10 copies along with flash drives, that takes time. That takes a lot of time. It costs a lot of money. It costs a lot of money for us to mail those. And then you're setting yourselves up to be susceptible to cybersecurity, right, with flash drives. You don't even know what's on those flash drives when you put that into your computer, you could have malware on it, you don't know that it's a proposal. So anyway, I, I'm very passionate about pet peeve number three because I think electronic submission allows for ease, right, for us and also for the agency. And then also it allows you guys to keep better track of who's submitting, you know, timestamps when the proposal is submitted. And so anyway, electronic submission all day long. I know again, sometimes we can't avoid it, but Lexi, what are your thoughts on physical versus electronic?

Lexi (25:34):

Physical submissions? Every time I see one, I'm like, awesome, because that is going to shorten my timeline to put in the proposal by two days. If it's new on the 31st, I have to have it in the mail on the 29th or the 30th latest. And then at that point we are overnighting it via next day air, which I mean, that can cost hundreds of dollars. So it's super expensive. I mean, I did a physical submission yesterday. I had to reload my printer about seven times. It is so frustrating. Just the printing takes... I mean, I could literally be sitting in here waiting for the printing to take over an hour binding it and all that, and wanting so many copies. You know, I think to myself, would it not be easier if we electronically submitted this and you could print out as many copies as you need.

Megan (26:30):

Or not print 'em out, right.

Lexi (26:34):

Or just forward it to people who need it on the selection committee. Yeah, it is a lot, especially in this day and age, still requiring physical submission when people can get worried about email submission. That the files will be too large, bounce back, things like that. I have never once had that happen. People aren't submitting huge files for a 30 to 40 page proposal. And I especially like portals you were talking about with the timestamp, as soon as I upload that and submit it, I get an email right away saying, this is confirmed. You submitted your bid at this time and date. And that lets me know, okay, great. I don't have to worry about it. I'm not having to track a number and try to track a package and see did it make it on time. So physical submission is really, really frustrating. And we do have some comments in the chat from Terry talking about do most governments in 2024 still require written copies?

Megan (27:44):

Oh yeah.

Lexi (27:45):

Yeah. I would say a lot do.

Megan (27:48):

I think it comes in waves though, Terry. It's very interesting to me. I feel like right now we're coming off a wave of physical submissions. Like, we've had at least five in the past two or three weeks that we've had to mail in. And again, it goes back to that timeline. You know, trying to submit a good response and having to print out and bind and ship. It just, it takes time and it takes time away from the quality of your response. That's just the bottom line. But I will say it comes in waves, wouldn't you, Lexi?

Lexi (28:21):

Yes. I would say, like you said, we're coming off of a wave where I've probably done five in the past month since Christmas time, and then I may not do one for a month or two. It just varies. So it definitely does come in waves and you know, I understand why it used to be a thing, but in today's time with email and portals, portals are super accessible and yeah, resources, you're going to get more responses that way. You're going to get better responses. People will have more time to craft you a good response. And a lot of people when they see physical submission, some people just say no.

Megan (29:01):

Say no, I'm not doing it. I don't want to say we've done that before because we go after everything, but sometimes we do. We have to.

Lexi (29:11):

Yeah, sometimes when we have to line up priorities and cut things, if something is a physical submission, that's probably a lot more likely to be cut because that has shortened our timeline by two days.

Megan (29:23):

It has.

Megan (29:25):

You're exactly right. I want to tell a quick story. For those of you who don't know, Tennessee was hit with a snow-pocalypse a few weeks ago. And naturally our jobs don't stop when that happens. And we had an RFP that we had been working on for a very, very, very long time, and it was physical submission. So here we are two days out in the middle of Snowmageddon and we have to physically submit this proposal. Well, as you can imagine, it didn't get there in time. So here we are, you know, scrambling around contacting the organization, saying like, Hey, can we please email you this and, you know, give you proof of where we have shipped it? Well, long story short, they didn't receive a proposal from anybody because there was snow and the mail was not running at the time, so they didn't get anything submitted physically. So just keep that in mind when you're deciding whether physical or electronic submission, anything could happen. We never dreamed that we would get that much snow and we'd be snowed in for a week and a half, but it happened and it was awful. And we were scared to death that our proposal would not get there and it didn't get there. But luckily enough we were able to submit it electronically, so... Or how about this, provide the option, right?. You can submit it physically or you can submit it electronically. We love options.

Lexi (30:59):

Let people choose whatever they prefer.

Megan (31:01):

Let them choose. Exactly. All right. We should move on from that one because that's a touchy subject. This one is a good, a good pet peeve too. Lack of clear definition on required forms and minority owned business requirements. Lexi, I'll let you go first. What are your thoughts around the, let's start with required forms first... I think.

Lexi (31:29):

So required forms, it's super common. Almost every RFP has them. I love when I see an RFP and it's seven to 10 pages long and it's really just focused on the scope of work. And yeah, there are no required forms. You're not having to muddle through not irrelevant things, but things that really don't have anything to do with the scope of work. And a lot of times these forms, sure, they may be required of this selected proposer and the selected letter, but they could get signed at that time. It's not really required that everyone putting in has to sign to that. I mean, I've had instances where I look at proposals that are 80 to 90 pages, RFPs that are 80 to 90 pages long...
(32:16)
And 50 of the 80 pages are required forms. And that is so frustrating for someone like me who compiles proposals has to get them signed and all of that to literally have to muddle through all these forms. Some are forms that have to be signed, some are forms that you're just viewing samples. And it's extremely hard when they don't give you a checklist of what you need to turn back in because then you're going, okay, do they need this signed or is this just a sample for me to read about? So you waste a lot of time figuring out muddling through all those forms.

Megan (32:54):

You do. And sometimes I've noticed some of the questions or descriptions on those forms we address in our proposal. So it's like, can we... can you as an organization go back to those forms and say, look, we're asking them to propose this in their proposal. Let's revise the form.
(33:16)
And I think the checklist, the point that you brought up about the checklist is very important. I love a good checklist to ensure that we're including all your required forms in our proposal because when we go to download thousands of attachments, we might miss something, right? Because sometimes there are 13 or 14 forms we have to fill out and get notarized and that sort of thing. Some forms are very, very complex. So if you could provide just an example of what you're truly needing on each form, that would be helpful. I have seen that in the past as an example of just a form filled out and what's needed. Let's move on to minority owned business requirements and disadvantaged business requirements and women owned. What are your thoughts, and do you have some tips around how agencies can be a little bit more clear on what those requirements might be?

Lexi (34:23):

Yeah, it's especially helpful when they have it labeled something as MBEs or I can search diversity, anything like that that I can easily search and find in the proposal in the RFP because sometimes I search these buzzwords and they didn't use those words. And so thats hard, and really there needs to be a section in the RFP about MBE requirements, even if it's not needed or relevant to this RFP, I still like when they provide the section and say there's a 0% goal or no goals attached, you know. No goals required for this because that lets me know, you know, definitely where that entity stands on the DB requirements. And a lot of times they're not clearly defined. Sometimes you'll see a goal of 30%. Sometimes a goal is merely a goal that they are not actually requiring you to find one when you propose all of that. They're just saying, this is our goal, but we'll figure it out after we award someone. Whereas other times they're calling it a goal, but they actually are requiring the prime contractor to go out and find these subs and get agreements that these subs will participate, which we've had to do several times when we're not even awarded the project yet.

Megan (35:47):

Yes, and I don't mean to cut you off, I just have a thought really quick. That goes back to timeline. So if you do have a DBE MBE requirement, keep that in mind when you are forming your timeline for responses because that takes time, especially if you don't have relationships with some of these DBEs. And clearly, you know, there's a huge list out there of depending on which agency you're working with, they have lists. And when you don't have a relationship with these people, it's a very awkward conversation. It's like, Hey, we have this RFP, this is who we are. These are the things we're going to go after. Can you do X, Y, and Z? And, you know, sometimes that agency or that minority owned business doesn't feel comfortable in partnering with you. They don't know you, right? And two, let me go back to the business lists that are typically they're posted or there's a link in the RFP that we can go and visit to solicit these minority owned businesses, right? A lot of times those businesses are not, you can't filter that list by what they do. Meaning if we are going after an ERP selection project, we do not know which of those minority owned businesses specialize in those types of projects. So then all of a sudden we're having to just, you know, look at 10 of 'em and go Google them, as Lexi mentioned, to figure out what it is that their specialty is. And so that is inconvenient for us as a responder.

Lexi (37:22):

Yeah, it takes a super long time. I mean, before I even started actually working on a proposal this week, I had to line up DB subs for us to use, and I spent hours doing that. You have to go to the directory. You're finding firms, you're Googling them, they may or may not do what you're looking for. You finally find some, you email, you call. I mean, it is extremely time consuming and I don't think entities realize that. Like you said, when they craft their timelines, I mean really if you are having lots of DBE requirements a month would be great to get a proposal together because that's--Megan (38:07):

That's a minimum.Lexi (38:08):

I promise you I've been going back and forth for two weeks trying to get subs lined up. So that's half of the timeline right there is just being like, are we able to get these people lined up? Because there's no point in us even proposing if we can't fulfill this step and it's required.

Megan (38:24):

Yeah, right. Exactly. And realize too, guys, that these requirements vary across states, across agencies, across regions. It is very confusing for us. Every time we see one of these, it's almost like we cringe. It's a great thing. I'm not knocking that and I need to say we are a minority owned firm and we do have certifications in many, many states. But again, to get that certification, it takes a lot of time and there are a lot of requirements depending on which certification you're going after and in which state. So it's been a process and a goal of ours in business development to start chasing these certifications. I mean, we are minority owned and we do appreciate having those goals as a minority owned company, but just know that it is very frustrating for your vendors if it's not clearly defined in the RFP what that looks like. Lexi, tell the story really quick. We just had one recently where we couldn't decide if the RFP was saying, Hey, we need a woman owned entity or we need a disadvantaged business entity. There were different percentages, but then there was a sentence in there that said it can be either or.
(39:46)
Super weird. So talk about that a little bit.

Lexi (39:49):

Yeah, that is unfortunately very common that they do not make it clear. MBE and WBE are different things, and I am also seeing a lot of the service disabled veteran offices recently. So they're just adding more and more things, which is not a bad thing, but it is really hard when you don't make it clear exactly what you're asking for. Because if I'm needing an MBE, AWB and a service veteran on business, I mean that's three subs defined versus if you're saying it's either or, that can be one sub for all of that. So a lot of times they just do not make it clear and make it really, really difficult. And sometimes you'll even ask in the Q and A period, I have emailed in, this is a WBE and MBE, can they fulfill both requirements? And you don't hear back. So it's extremely frustrating when you're trying to fulfill these requirements and just the lack of communication when they could have made it clear in their RFP in the first place.

Megan (40:57):

Sure, and then also, this goes back to the pre-bid meeting, pre-proposal. A lot of these things I've been on pre-bid meetings where they are clearly defined and they give examples, you know? And that is very helpful. So just making sure, like Lexi said, define what you need and what the goals are, and if we aren't clear on it, at least give us some communication as to what you're looking for and what your goals are. I'm going to go to the chat real quick. Our fearless leader is joining us today, and hopefully we are making you proud AV, but he said, what if the agency doesn't have the systems for accepting e-submissions? Sorry, we didn't see your comment earlier AV, but I think they have the option to hopefully accept email submissions, right? If they don't have the systems or the capabilities to, you know, upload or have electronic submissions, hopefully email is a good way to do that. So thank you for that question. Let's see here. And he also said sometimes the agency accepts our Avero status as an MBE and sometimes they still want us to get subs. Yes, I didn't even think about that, but great point. And that is very frustrating. Very, very frustrating. What else? Let's see.

Lexi (42:32):

We have a comment from Terry at the top about... I have a lot of sympathy for vendors dealing with the variances between governments. Even the most professional procurement operations all operate slightly differently. In this state alone. There are hundreds of governments for vendors to deal with all with their own quirks. That is so, so true.

Megan (42:55):

Thank you, Terry.

Lexi (42:57):

It is nothing is uniform. No, I mean, counties and cities that are right next to each other do things different ways. It is not even uniform within a state like you made a good point. So it... it's really hard to have all these different requirements and that truly makes every RFP and proposal I put in unique because you are tailoring it to that entity and every entity is unique and different than others.

Megan (43:25):

Yes. But we need to know what makes you unique and what that background is and why then, why now. I think those things could really be defined in your proposal or in your solicitation. Excuse me, Rachel had a comment. Thank you Rachel, for joining us today. She says, from a vendor standpoint, often the Q and A period ends quickly and reaching out to the procurement contact can be scary for fear of being eliminated. Yup. That is a very great point. Even when the question is about an MBE or submission requirements and not the content of the RFP. Rachel, preach. Yes, it is. Some agencies have very strict rules about who you can contact when the RFP is on the streets. And so yes, that can be very scary, especially for people like myself and Lexi who are trying to bring in business to our organization. So thank you for your comment and thank you so much for joining us today. Lex, do you have any thoughts on her comment?

Lexi (44:29):

I've totally been there and sometimes I call people and leave messages and may or may not ever get the message returned. And it is scary because you're really just trying to craft the proposal and make sure it's what they're asking for. Requirements, not the actual content of the scope of work. And it is frustrating when you can't get those answers because of a blackout period, for example, where they can't talk to any vendors, things like that. Because if they would engage in talking to vendors, have a pre-proposal conference, have a Q and A period or even answer questions after the Q and A period after the formal period ends, if they can. That would just be more helpful. You'll get better responses and people will know what you're asking for.

Megan (45:15):

Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, this is sort of relationship building too, right? And it all goes back to just being open and having that feedback loop, loop, this constant communication. What do you want? And if we don't understand what you want, can you please help us understand?
(45:34)
I think it's very simple. So let's move on to pet peeve number five. And this is really, a good one too. It does go back to that feedback perspective. So oftentimes we have a lot of lack of feedback, especially with our unsuccessful submissions. So if you all award a bid to someone else, we want to know where our proposal fell short. And I can't tell you how many times both Lexi and I in the past three years have reached out for a score sheet for a 10 minute conversation of where we might have, you know, fallen short or an email, Hey, give us five bullet points of where you guys didn't like us or what we did wrong, because we need to enhance those aspects of our proposal when we respond because we get better. Lexi, what are your thoughts?

Lexi (46:30):

Yeah, it's very frustrating. It's never enjoyable. Of course, as someone who is a Proposal Coordinator to get a list of things they didn't like or that was done wrong, but at least that helps me improve and know what to do better next time. That's what it's all about is improving and realizing where you fell short and making those improvements. But a lot of times if you can't even get that feedback, you're kind of at a loss and you don't know what you did wrong per se, you may not have done much of anything wrong. And it is not uncommon unfortunately, that I send emails asking for feedback and I would say maybe... Maybe about half get returned with feedback or some will say, yeah, we'll get you that. We'll get you that. I follow up a few weeks later and they still don't respond. So it is not uncommon that, and some just simply don't return the message. And then at that point it makes you feel like, okay, did they even pay much attention to my proposal? Was it actually looked at and scored accordingly, or, you know, did they know who they wanted from the beginning? And there really is no rationale for why they chose who they chose in terms of technical data and stuff. So it is very frustrating because in business development we don't think we're perfect at everything and we always are trying to improve. And we get that feedback to know how to improve.

Megan (47:53):

Yes, and I've always been at the mindset of never stop improving. There's always something that you can improve on regardless if it's a, you know, proposal, whatever it may be, there's always something you can improve on. So, you know, without that score sheet or without that meeting or without that feedback of where we fell short, we're not able to gauge performance. Also, keep in mind when we don't get feedback or a meeting or score sheet, we feel like we've wasted resources in our efforts. It's a little bit demoralizing. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but we feel like we don't receive any return on our investment, right? So in my opinion, some tips on how to do better with this sort of feedback loop is establish a standard feedback procedure for everything, right? Not just score sheets, but even if your vendors have questions. What is that procedure and what steps do you have to take? What steps do we as the vendor have to take? I think prompt feedback is important. As Lexi said, it's very hard to keep up with because we respond to so many who we haven't received feedback from. So your prompt response is key, but we understand, right? You guys have day jobs too, but so we accept any feedback we can get. Do you have any tips, Lexi, on the feedback portion? And then we'll go to our comments.

Lexi (49:35):

It's especially helpful when they're willing to do debriefs, A short 10, 15 minute call, to go over items you fell short. Or even just simply providing an Excel matrix sheet where they score entities and wrote comments about what you did wrong and that helps them get better proposals from vendors next time. Vendors will know what they're looking for next time and know how to cater to this entity. And that kind of goes off AV's question in the chat, what's in it for the organization for giving you feedback? Purchasing departments are really busy and you are asking them to put another meeting on their calendar. That's very true. They are super busy. But I do think if they give feedback, it makes the process be transparent and open and all vendors feel like they had a fair chance. And also for vendors to improve for next time because purchasing departments go out to bid for things all the time. So even though they may have just went out to bid for a technology project, I saw this before, they'll go out to bid for another in six weeks. So that helps for next time how to improve. And if they will give people feedback, they will likely get better proposals in the future.

Megan (50:51):

Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that, Lexi, thank you. I think also making sure you're very clear about the evaluation criteria, right? What are you going to evaluate us on and what is the weight of that evaluation? I think sometimes proposals are very unclear about that. I think that would be most helpful. Okay. Well, I'm going to wrap us up today, but I always like to do this, Lexi, what are two or three things that you would identify as key takeaways from today's conversation?

Lexi (51:32):

A key takeaway for me is kind of like the effort you put in will reflect the effort you get out. If you put a lot of time into crafting your RFP solicitation, you will likely get good responses. We have somebody in the chat, Gary, that said, my number one pet peeve is recycled requirements. They use old RFPs and go out to bid for it again. I mean, I'm working on one currently that talks about giving drawings and specifications for a technology project. I mean, it was clearly an architectural or engineering RFP, and they haven't even taken those things out. So that's extremely frustrating and has told me they did not spend much time on their RFP in the first place. And the more time, I truly believe, the more time you spend in making sure your RFP is well-defined, has a good scope of work, provides people a checklist if you're wanting lots of required forms and such, you will get better responses. You're not going to get great responses if you are doing these pet peeves items in your solicitation.

Megan (52:37):

Yes, yes, I agree with that. And a lot of times we see, you know, counties and cities who will, like you said, recycle the RFP. I think RFPs from other agencies are useful if you're using it as a guide, right? If their project is very similar, but you and your organization have your own unique needs, you have your own problems, you have your own background, and you have your own reasons for why this, why now. So make sure that you are not recycling because your problems may not be the exact same as someone next door to you. So yes, that's a great comment, Gary. Thank you for that. I think my key takeaway here is let's work on this feedback loop in this open lines of communication. We feel very, very... like we're over here sometimes when we have questions and we can't get them answered, and we feel like you guys don't want to work with us as vendors, and maybe that's not the case at all, but just talk to us when we have a question.
(53:48)
If you can respond, please email us back or please at least provide a Q and A session or a pre-bid meeting. I think, you know, going back to our conversation earlier, the pre-bid meeting could really help you guys define what you're looking for and help us ask questions on things that we don't understand. Because to be honest with you, everybody reads things differently, you know, and they comprehend things differently. So just those open lines of communication are super key in making sure that you get very good responses and a pool of responses. Right? So thank you guys for joining us today. I think we have more comments. Let's see. I think Terry and Gary are having a conversation. So thank you guys for keeping the conversation going. If we didn't get to your comment today, please reach out to us. We're available again on all platforms. Please follow our social media channels and sign up for our newsletter. Make sure you check out our podcast and go to our YouTube and watch all of our thought leadership videos. I promise you we'll get something from it. Terry, thank you for joining us today, and thank you for your support in pushing this out to your peers. Lexi, you did a great job. Thank you for sharing your insight as the Proposal Coordinator for Avero. We're Super happy to have you on our team, and I'm very proud of the time you put into this today. So thank you so much. Thank you.