In this insightful episode, AV and Robert delve into the evolving dynamics of public housing agencies (PHAs). They emphasize PHA executives' need to adopt an entrepreneurial mindset to navigate the sector's changing landscape adeptly. Key discussion points include:
This episode is a must-listen for PHA executives and professionals in the public sector, offering valuable insights into embracing change and innovation for organizational advancement.
Stay up to date on industry trends!
Download our free eBook:
➡ https://bit.ly/2023techguide
Learn More About Avero:
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Connect With AV:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/verekar
(865) 415-3848 | info@averoadvisors.com
In this insightful episode, AV and Robert delve into the evolving dynamics of public housing agencies (PHAs). They emphasize PHA executives' need to adopt an entrepreneurial mindset to navigate the sector's changing landscape adeptly. Key discussion points include:
This episode is a must-listen for PHA executives and professionals in the public sector, offering valuable insights into embracing change and innovation for organizational advancement.
Stay up to date on industry trends!
Download our free eBook:
➡ https://bit.ly/2023techguide
Learn More About Avero:
➡ https://www.averoadvisors.com
Connect With Us:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/averoadvisors
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/averoadvisors
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/averoadvisors
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@averoadvisors
Connect With AV:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/verekar
(865) 415-3848 | info@averoadvisors.com
AV (00:00):
From Frigid East Tennessee, we have Sub-Zero temperatures and everything is shut down, but not our Lives. We are here today talking about our visionary ventures, particularly in the Public housing agency sector where HUD has been promoting this entrepreneurial management of their organizations and really trying to get the executive directors and the executive teams to think like entrepreneurs as they transition out of this traditional public housing model into something new. So I have with me Mr. Robert Kornovich. He's the Director of Advisory Services at Avero and a veteran of consulting for housing authorities. Robert. Morning, welcome.Robert (00:50):
Good morning, and I am super, super excited for this topic.AV (00:56):
Alright, so where do you want to start? This is kind of unusual for what we usually talk about. What is it that makes this topic so pertinent for you?Robert (01:09):
So let me lay some foundation here. The background that you and I have is why this topic is so exciting for me. I came up through local government and worked my way up through local government before coming to Avera. So I represent a little bit of the old school and the old method as to how people would usually rise up to leadership positions in government, quasi government, local government entities. And I'm excited to talk to you about this because as a five Time Inc, 5,000 CEO and entrepreneur, I think we can show some strategies, some easy strategies for not only housing authorities, but also some other clients as well, to give them an idea of what entrepreneurship is because there's still a number of people that are in leadership positions and executive director, managing director, city government. If you're city manager, even if you're like A CFO, there's expectations out there both from the public and from the Fed, specifically hud.
(02:13)
We'll talk about that a little bit. There's a lot of pressure now to think outside the box and a lot of organizations are starting to look for people who didn't come up through local government to harness their experience in the private sector or in developing a small business as a way to embrace some new concepts and some new strategies. Outreach, marketing, branding is some of the things I want to talk about as well. These are really going to help people out who are either currently in those positions or they want to be in those positions fairly soon.AV (02:48):
Yeah. So practically how do they do it? Because public housing agency executive directors or executives have come up through the ranks like you have always been in housing a servant's heart, they want to do better for society, they want to house people, they want to do it more efficiently. And now you're throwing out this, wait a minute, you need to act like a business owner and take some risks. So how do you reconcile those two things?Robert (03:17):
Well, and I think we're not talking about super complicated strategies that someone has to have an MBA to understand. The one that comes to mind is branding. There's an expectation both at local government level and in housing authorities that you're going to develop a brand. You're not just going to keep doing the way things the way you've always done them. And that's why you've seen traditionally, especially in housing, someone who's a compliance manager that understands HUD regulation, that understands the Fair Housing Act. We've even seen in our larger housing authority clients, the executive directors tend to be lawyers who have worked in, excuse me, this type of law before. And that's a predicate for them being able to come in and be able to run a housing authority correctly. And I think nowadays, that's not just the only thing you have to have. I think you have to understand how do you do branding?
(04:13)
How do you market your housing authorities? Because HUD doesn't want another 1000 housing authorities popping up over the next couple of years. They actually want them to start consolidating and actually be big parts of economic development engines. And a lot of that comes just from showing off who you are and explain to the public that you're not just housing low income folks or blue collar workers or disabled veterans or homeless veterans, that you're actually bringing a lot to the community. And I don't think a lot of people know that, and most people would be surprised that their local government does some sort of housing. Either they're funding another housing authority or they have a city department that's really small that's only providing a couple hundred vouchers. But I think branding is probably the biggest thing that people need to embrace. There's other things that come along with that, but how do you sell yourself as an organization?
(05:06)
How do you track an Amazon to want to come into your region and you do it by showing that you have a stable economy and a workforce or a way to bring in people that would be working for Amazon or another entity. How is that economic engine working? It's not just the basics of let's turn to the Chamber of Commerce and see what they have to say. It's bringing in your part of the organization and your vision to get some recognition so that people understand who you are and what you do. And by the way, this opens you up to more funding as well, right? The branding.AV (05:43):
Yeah, branding is key. I think outreach and working with not just the city or county you are in, that sort of supports you, funds you partially and hud, but it's also working with other housing agencies. We've seen a lot of that was unheard of. We've seen a lot of agencies go private to the point where they don't even talk about themselves as a housing authority. They've rebranded, renamed themselves, they're working closely with developers to bring in specific kinds of housing. So it's an interesting time, but let's talk about why we are talking about this, right? It is an industry we serve through it strategic planning or strategic planning and business process redesign. And we're really witness to this at the very ground level on how much they struggle with technologies and processes. And now you are layering this top. Is this an opportunity, Robert, for them to leapfrog some of these inefficiencies they've had for many years?Robert (06:47):
I think so if you start looking, excuse me, as things as outcome-based and not just doing things the way that they used to be is the easiest way I can explain it from my background in the local government. I mean there's just a lot of processes that this is how we've been doing it for the past 15 years. I mean, why
(07:08)
Comes based thinking towards externally now with our project management teams? It's not just about a deliverable or checking a box, but providing greater outreach to landlords. I mean, a lot of housing authorities live and die by the availability of landlords to take vouchers and be able to provide property and housing for folks. I mean, that's not an easy thing to do. Landlords aren't just pounding down your door trying to find a way to get into your HCV program. You got to market to them to some degree and you got to make the process better and easier for them to transact business. I mean, if they have to spend a lot of time and paperwork and go down to the housing authority just to get check their portion of the housing subsidy on the rent, you are not going to get a lot of landlords. You're not going to get a lot of participation.
(08:01)
You're not going to be able to get them in focused enough so that you can train them on how this process works and the paperwork they need to do because the time it takes and the paperwork that needs to be done, even if it's completely automated, still is a substantial amount of time that competes with a landlord's desire to waste my time doing something like this when I can just go out and find some other tactic for bringing in a tenant. The housing authority has to really attract people, and it's not just through process improvement specifically, but again, you want to give them an incentive to participate in things like that and highlight a lot of things that people are looking at now. What is my involvement in my community? What do I get from involving myself in a community project or a community initiative? So again, there's a lot of things that get tied to being an entrepreneur, but I think the marketing and branding is they're going to have to embrace that up and down the line so it's not just an executive director. I think your board needs to understand that your executive level people, your c-suite people within your organization, you need to understand that, but that also trickles down further into the training and compliance department, which might be the ones who are trying to really interact with your landlords.AV (09:25):
Yes, marketing and branding is one thing. I think this also impacts overall strategic planning. We've seen how PA to do strategic planning at a minimum, there's a HUD form that they fill out every year. It is a one pager that says, here's the five things we're going to do in the next year. I maybe oversimplifying it, but at a basic level that's essentially what they need. But this now goes into the territory of really planning strategically where you want to be in the next five years. And then where it applies to us is, yes, we can help agencies do that, but there's a tech element to that too, right? Your sort of bureaucracy heavy housing authorities are not going to make it if they keep operating with the same technologies and the same operations of 10 years ago, five years ago. And we've seen PHA struggle with that transition.Robert (10:20):
Yeah, there's two areas that come to mind for me. One is your ability to attract employees and especially a younger workforce, that there's an expectation of technology, but there's also an expectation that there's going to be an inherent value in their position working for your housing authority. Again, tying back to a belief in I want to do something that supports my community, that helps my community grow, that helps house people. There's a lot of people out there in the workforce that are more values focused than just having a job that some older generations like mine, it was more about just having a job than it was about doing something you really believe in. There's a younger workforce out there that you need to attract with more than just a paycheck, which housing authorities and governments struggle to provide a competitive advantage in that you can really harness that with values.
(11:18)
And the same thing with the people you're housing. They also need to know that it, you're aligned with them to some degree of vision and culturally, but again, through the technology at a minimum, just because you're low income doesn't mean you don't use Amazon. So you probably still purchase a lot of things on Amazon and like we've talked about before, your expectation is now I'm going to be able to transact business with a housing authority through the same type of means and just reaching out to economically disadvantaged folks in the community. You can't wait for them to just come into the lobby to fill out paperwork. You have to find ways to engage them through technology and through marketing and give them an opportunity to get those services. So culture's another thing that I think comes out of being an entrepreneur, and it's actually, it's something I would ask you. So as a CEO and as an entrepreneur, how do you see your ability to attract a workforce and an audience in those methods? Like I talked about, what do you do as a CEO to really market who you are and bring people into an opportunity and not just a job?AV (12:32):
It is very difficult and it helps that we actually mean what we say. So you have to have conviction about what you're trying to do one, right? Then it comes through as a smallish new-ish company. It's difficult to attract high caliber talent. We've always preferred to build talent, which we've been very successful with, but there's always the chance to promote yourself, not just to get more business, but to get people to come work with you. And one, we've been very consistent about what we say in our marketing and social media and recruitment channels about who we are and what kind of opportunity this is, and we encourage people to reach out and just talk to me or anyone in the leadership team about what it is like to work at Avera. But it's difficult to paint that picture because at the end of the day, people that have always been in a nine to five job or look at employment as a means to a paycheck and don't necessarily care about the esoteric, the strategic and the opportunistic things in a job because they're getting that somewhere else or not necessarily looking for it, it's difficult to find the right people that sort of latch onto that.
(14:00)
So as an entrepreneurial CEO, it's always a sales job. No matter what you're doing, it's always selling. So you have to be good at that. So equating that back to PHA executives, you've got to be always be closing. That's the number one rule of entrepreneurship. If you're not selling, if you're not bringing in whatever it is you're bringing in, right? Revenue, more people lining up to work for you, more clients, more people applying to your services, what are you doing? Because 60 to 80% of the job is true. The outward facing and making sure that you're promoting your organization and yourself. Sometimes people gravitate towards the leader, right or wrong, some people want to come work with me or you with one of our executive leaders or managers. Some people want to work, go work for some executive director that has moved from one agency to another. So it's a whole combination of things and there is no checklist or a standard operating procedure to do just that. There are many to do recruiting and great HR people and recruiting people can tell you that all day, that lots of proven tactics exist. But to do recruiting from a leadership perspective is extremely hard. We're still trying to crack it,Robert (15:32):
And you're exactly right. Things are so process oriented in housing authorities like we talked about, that it's not just simply following these seven steps and getting this result. It's really getting in that uncomfortable space for a lot of us who started in local government of what do you mean? I need to come with a vision, I have a solution, but I also need to have a vision as well nowadays because the public's also expecting that too, that you're going to be efficient with the funds that are provided to you, but you're also going to think big with those funds as well and be creative. And just thinking about ERP software solutions, we've talked about how there's only a certain number of players that do housing authority that use ERP except housing authorities don't necessarily look at it as enterprise resource planning software. They just know it's their foundational product or their workflows.
(16:29)
But there's no reason why you can't embrace other forms of technology to drive what you need to do and not just fall into a box at the software vendor. The two or three main players in housing authorities, for better or for worse, want to fit you into a box and they assume that their standard setup is going to work for you because oh, they spent all this time researching HUD reporting requirements and they know how to lay these things out specifically in their software. To answer that, my concern comes from I don't see a lot of ability to really expand beyond that. And I'm sure there's compliance people out there that are pulling their hair out going, that's the last thing I need, is an executive director who's starting to look at things vision related and not locked into a specific policy, but the landscape has changed. You have to start thinking that way and there's an expectation that you're going to do that with public funds.AV (17:28):
Yeah, that's a good point because we talked to somebody last week completely getting what from the vendors on both sides, outgoing vendor, incoming vendor, squeezing the client from roadside saying, we're not going to support your system after a certain date. Pull the plug. This vendor is saying, yeah, yeah, we'll go live by that date. But there's no real concrete evidence of either of those things. So I think the executives need to be more cognizant and yes, they have been treating projects. It came to our attention when it was completely off the rails. Figuring out who to trust is very important within your organization and outside. So you've got to this point because the vendor said, yes, we can do it. Your internal people maybe didn't give you the full picture and you've put the wrong people in charge of this transformational, very risky engagement, and now you're seeking outside help as an entrepreneur, as a CEO, would I have caught something like that earlier? Probably because at the end of the day, it impacts our ability to do things like make payroll, give raises, give bonuses, buy the new software for our team. So keeping an eye on the bottom line is I think something that is new to these executives who may not have had to do that before.Robert (19:03):
Yeah, they live in a world of enterprise risk mitigation, and when we help folks with cybersecurity and with IT related initiatives, obviously we speak a lot to that because that's the purview of executive leadership and it really is their day to day. And I know a lot of them out there that really is the only thing they focus on, which is, what is my risk today and how do I mitigate it? Either because there's some compliance issues or maybe the local newspaper decides that they want to delve into what you do a little bit or HUD wants to is knocking on the door going, Hey, we want to audit one of these programs that you have. I think it's very easy. And if I was in that position, I would gravitate more towards what do I need to do today to minimize my risk and keep my operations going and at the same time satisfy local government and HUD and the citizens sense.
(20:01)
And that's where I think I see the inability to focus more on a vision than just constant enterprise risk mitigation. And one of the reasons why I like this topic is because I keep hearing that a lot of capital funding that's going to be coming from HUD is going to be tied to your ability to grow as a housing authority. There's almost like there's going to be a preference to focus on those who are growing, which implies some degree of efficiency, right? And success. That's not the end all be all. As we know working in a business that growth doesn't absolutely solve everything, but it really does solve a lot and it really, it's a great guidepost to have and focus on. Don't you agree?AV (20:49):
Yeah. Sales cures everything. As my old boss used to say, big grain of salt. It comes with its own issues. Growth comes with its own issues, but you have to keep an eye on where you're going because it's easy to lose track. So coming back to how that equates to housing authorities, the way they're changing their models with rat conversions and really thinking about themselves as a business, as a developer, as a housing provider, rather than just pushing public projects or vouchers, you have to see where that line is as far as new development and how you are transitioning your organization is concerned. Let's take some audience questions.Robert (21:45):
Sure.AV (21:47):
Megan says, how can PHA leaders navigate the complexities of change management when implementing new technologies or processes?Robert (21:57):
Yeah.
(21:59)
The way I see this one is, again, going back to vision. It's easiest for us when we come in and we help folks innovate and change their technology. If it's tied to a vision, an overall vision, and it doesn't have to be, again, a complicated one, but in order to streamline streamline operations and get the system configured correctly for what you need, there needs to be an overall vision as to what you're looking to do otherwise, the tendency is you spend a lot of time chasing things that are not that important and don't have an impact in the end. And for us, that tends to be sort of a wasted effort. Now, there are things that local government and housing authorities have to do just because of who they are or because of political pressure. So we recognize that there are some processes that might not look efficient or make sense on paper, but this is the way it has to be done.
(22:56)
This report or this method that you follow in finance is because there's a requirement from a board or a city council, and that's perfectly fine. That's their purview. Those things have to stay, and we're not looking to eliminate those things. But the easiest way to determine if what you're doing is actually making a difference and is actually serving your needs, is it working towards that vision? And we talk about it in it as well. There are a lot of internal things it can do that serve themselves and make their lives better. But if it's not driving the overall vision of the organization, if it's not helping to improve citizen service delivery, who's got the resources to spend time on things that are not driving your vision and getting things done and accomplished, especially things that are coming to you from your city council or from your governing board, you really have to focus on those things. And again, as well as tying those into a sense of involvement, a sense of values that your employees are looking for and your public is looking for as well.AV (24:07):
Good points. The other question Megan had was what are some innovative strategies and PHA leaders can adopt to address common challenges? I think this is a well beaten horse, right? Innovation, also a pertinent topic to entrepreneurship. You always think of innovation as coming up with the next Facebook or a new killer app to do something, but there's innovation in everyday life, and we've seen that, right? Housing authorities pivoting quickly during covid to offer different services to make more better use of their systems and use their dollars effectively. You attended this session from HUD on this particular topic on how to be more entrepreneurial as a public housing agency executive. What were some of the takeaways or questions that were raised from that session?Robert (25:10):
The big thing was, again, marketing and developing a brand. And it's not just advertising, which a lot of people think branding is just an advertising, but branding is defining who you are and what you want to do. And if you're an MTW Housing authority, you're expected to do that. I mean, you've been given the opportunity by getting MTW status by Congress to think outside the box and innovate and address solutions that are critical to your community. And I'm thinking of one of the housing authorities that we had in the San Francisco Bay area where the economic dynamics were unrelatable to smaller housing authorities. And again, we're talking people that are working legal business as a legal administrative assistant or something like that, being paid 80 to a hundred thousand dollars a year and still qualifying for housing assistance because the cost of living is so high in that particular area.
(26:10)
And HUD's not going to give you the answers on that. They're not going to figure out a way to answer questions and provide solutions for every single housing authority out there. They don't have the resources and they don't have the time. So really the burden shifts on you to use your branding and your marketing to take advantage of opportunities in your area and not just waiting until, well, if I get seven more staff positions, then I'll be able to go after this initiative that we've been talking about for years. Housing authorities are telling us all the time, retention and hiring are one of their biggest issues. And so what they do is they turn to ERP solutions or workflow solutions to automate a lot of that. But there's other opportunities as well in working with other organizations on initiatives and sharing resources. And that's what HUD wants you to do.
(27:02)
They want you to have a brand, they want you to grow enough that people are paying attention and use you as the regional leader for housing initiatives and economic development and along the way, absorb all these smaller housing authorities that are struggling. So some of it's survival, I think to a degree, if you're in a struggling housing authority, innovation and thinking a little more forward and growth is not something you just have to give up on. I mean, it's same thing in small business. I mean, you could very easily tell yourself, well, I'm large enough. I don't want to get any bigger than this. I sort of like the way this is set up. I don't want to grow. Or in some cases I don't know how to grow. I don't know how to be better at what we do and expand and get some opportunities.
(27:56)
So I think that's where the entrepreneurial spirit can be harnessed and used to unleash that potential. And again, I know these are not simple solutions because everything that's going on in the housing authority, but what we see consistently, consistently is a degree of vision as to where you want to be in two or three years. So busy working on today and staying compliant with today and what's going on, but a lack of vision so that we can tie a lot of these solutions towards that vision. And not dismissing growth, but thinking that well, growth's important, but it's like number seven on my list of what to do. HUD's changing the landscape, and they're expecting you to address these first and foremost. And as I think as I read the tea leaves on hud, that's where you're going to wind up getting a lot of your capital funding and investments that they want to do, especially on properties, is they're going to prioritize PHAs that are really excelling in that field, that are really doing some amazing things with funding and show really strong potential.AV (29:09):
How can we as management IT consultants help in this? Because we also have a deep background in public housing authorities providing services to them, access to subject matter experts, and I think we are in a unique position to help with this specific problem or next stage in the evolution of public housing. What do you think is the immediate offering we can give to our clients across? IRobert (29:39):
Think you have to have reliable data service delivery, dashboards, use of data, and it's a dangerous area for leaders sometimes, right? Because you don't want to manage based upon statistics in a dashboard. You can't let that replace your leadership. But at the same time, how can you speak about improving service delivery? How can you go to an economic development meeting and talk about areas and opportunities unless you can identify some of the gaps in service deliveries. And it can be simple things such as how long does it take to house someone? How long does it to get someone through rafta? And the ERP products that we see don't specifically focus on that because again, they're so policy driven, they're so process driven and through automation. But I think there's a gap in statistics and usable information, real time information, which I guess is another struggle that we see as well, which is, I need some information right now that's timely and accurate.
(30:46)
I can't wait for two weeks until this report is run or someone figures out how to do this, or we discover our software doesn't do it. When I can start delivering to executives what they need from a system I think is really where this takes off and the innovation takes off and not just, this is what my housing specialists need to have in terms of a system to be able to process what they do think a little bit more beyond that. What else could we do to help innovate that? And to the point that was asked earlier with change management as well. I mean, change management can be touchy feely, but change management is also a focus on some hard stats and seeing what performance is on things.AV (31:31):
Great points, Robert. I think this is a topic off the beaten path for us, but not really because we help people redesign their organizations and operations all the time. So this is not that different. We come with a deep background on how to do this with existing or newer technology. So for those watching, please reach out if you are struggling with any of these elements or want to talk. Doesn't always have to be a project for us to talk to you. Reach out. Robert likes to give free advice, like he says, and let's figure this out together. We are very passionate about working with public housing agencies and look forward to shepherding you all through this next phase. This broadcast is live right now on multiple channels, but we'll be available on YouTube and on our channel, and we'll be turned into a podcast and newsletter. Please check us out on our website and socials. But Robert, thank you for joining me today. I hope you're warm and cozy in Phoenix, Arizona, but we are looking at a couple of days of digging out of this, almost a foot of snow in Knoxville. But thanks for joining us, and if you have nothing else to discuss, we can.Robert (32:56):
No, you hit it right on the head. Love handing out free advice. Love leveraging our experience in a number of areas to be able to help housing authorities do things better, more efficiently, and solve a lot of issues through useful technology.AV (33:14):
Excellent. Yeah, have a good dayRobert (33:15):
As well. Stay warm.